Speaker 1: 0:09

Really also trusting each other. There was no room for perfectionism, there was no room for double checking, micromanagement. I think it actually brought us really closer together as a founding team.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Welcome to Bubbling Out, where we pop in the norms of leadership and create new, sustainable, powerful ways to lead. This podcast is your sanctuary for discovering how to lead with resilience, manage change depletely and handle stress effectively. Join me for a series of breakthrough conversations, practical tools and mindset tips and a peek into my weird and wonderful life as a leader and entrepreneur, all aimed at helping you lead without compromising your time, energy, values or lifestyle. Hi everyone, welcome back to Bubbling Out. I hope that you are having a fantastic Wednesday. If you're listening to this on a Wednesday, maybe listen to this on any of the day, but the podcast comes out on a Wednesday, so I'm just assuming I hope you're having a great week.

Speaker 2: 1:10

It's been beautiful this week. It has been a week full of wonderful clients. It's my client call week. I don't know if I've mentioned this before in the podcast, but I have alternate weeks and it was inspired by my own coach, lauren, who I'm going to be bringing on the podcast soon. She manages her ADHD like me, and she has alternate call weeks. So one week she has calls with her clients and anybody else partners and then the following week she has focus week, and so I adapted that about two or three months ago and it has been so refreshing. I don't find myself bopping around anymore. I feel like I actually get stuff done and I have real blocks of time to hyper focus on what's going to move the needle. So if anybody needs some more focus time, I highly recommend removing calls off your calendar for at least one week a month. It's honestly freed up so much head space.

Speaker 2: 2:04

Anyway, today I am bringing you my wonderful ex-client now. She's now spread her wings, julia. We're going to be talking about her story from being a CMO in CMO and head of marketing in corporate and in Web three and in the tech industry, and how she went from there when she arrived at me when we first had our first phone call over a year and a half ago now, and to where she is now an entrepreneur with a partner, with a business, building two businesses at the same time. It's very impressive and we're going to talk about how she got there, what her journey was like and what she had to go through to get through that barrier of what it takes to be an entrepreneur, moving through the employee mindset into an entrepreneur mindset. So if that's something that you're interested in, I think you're going to love it, especially our founders who are growing businesses right now.

Speaker 2: 2:57

Or if you are thinking of starting your own business, this one's for you. Let's pop into it. Do you want to do a quick introduction of who you are and why you're even on this podcast?

Speaker 1: 3:09

Yeah, so I'm Julia, I'm a marketer by heart. So basically, after finishing my business school, I did like 10 years of marketing straight. So basically, after business school, I went to Adidas and worked for the global headquarters as a product manager, did some really cool shit there, like did some collabs with Forra Williams in Kanye West he was called Kanye West, in fact and it's like 10 years ago it was a really fun time. But after a while I realized that I would like to get into the tech space and moved to Dublin where I basically worked for Google for five years and it was a very interesting position because I basically moved on to the other side. So I worked for a tech company and worked with the biggest brands in the world. So I did campaigns with Adidas, with Procter and Gamble and all these big, big names, which was lots of fun. And while I was in that space and working for a tech company privately, I was always researching Web3, crypto, all of these things. So, yeah, like two years ago, I made the big step to go into Web3 full time, took ahead of marketing position and, yeah, basically realized Web3 can be a little bit wild. So after a year I left that company and that's actually when the two of us met. So we did a lot of coaching together and you helped me with the transition into being an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1: 4:49

So last year has been a big year for me with finding you, finding my co-founder, which is also women so there is a lot of female energy going around here and founding two businesses Last year. So one is Web3 marketing agency. It's called Lumini Labs, so there I offer everything around Web3 marketing and also gaming. So if you are looking into advising gaming, that's also for me. And then I found that I joined an incubator it's called a blockchain furnace group and I spent the last three months working on a gaming startup, but I probably will talk about that as well. It's called TINGS and, yeah, basically it's an amazing journey because I feel like, step by step, I'm getting closer to following my own vision and you are actually a big part of that, helping me to find that. Oh, that makes my heart happy. So maybe to say something private as well, I moved to Portugal, which is a dream. I'm surfing every day and enjoying my life here, which is also a big part of me now.

Speaker 2: 6:07

So lovely. I used to love it when we jumped onto the calls and you're like I've just been surfing, don't mind my wet hair and I'm like I love this. Yeah, yeah, love it. I've just done my yoga and I think that was an amazing thing for you to commit to, because coming out of a really hard role, like being head of marketing for any kind of emerging tech company, is always chaos, depending on the size, but usually chaos. And so coming down from that and decompressing and being able to unwind and not be sat at your laptop like 10, 15 hours a day thinking you should be working, giving yourself that time, and so that's when I met you.

Speaker 2: 6:50

When you were you're like what do I do next, like what is the plan, what shall I do? And it was just really nice to see you evolve. And yeah, I said to one of my clients this morning you know I'm having Julia on the podcast and honestly she's like the biggest success story because she's gone from being employed to figuring out what she wants to do next, setting a really clear vision. I think that's what helped you so much is this figuring out what you actually were working towards and then just doing it, like you literally would have a plan and you would execute the plan and some days it wouldn't work and some days it would, and you would send me messages and we would work through it. And I just love that about you You're very proactive.

Speaker 1: 7:29

I think, yeah, when we met, there was also another part, I think, which is also very common amongst women, which is like my self-confidence was super low. Like I was working through all the negative feedback I got in the last couple of months, searching for all the mistakes I've done, like rewinding all the conversations. I had this kind of mentality At the end. I mean, you need to take time to work through difficult situations, but then you need to move on because it will hold you back if you just overanalyze. And being stuck in that moment that was also a big part when we met here. So that changed now a lot.

Speaker 2: 8:10

I'm so proud of you and I think you did such a good job because you noticed that that was what you were doing and it's like okay, but how do I get out from this state? And I think you put in all the work to move out of that state. I remember you came to me one day and you were just like you know, I'm just not worrying about it anymore, I just feel like I can do this and I just think it's amazing.

Speaker 1: 8:31

You have to learn to work with the little voices in your head, basically.

Speaker 2: 8:36

Yeah, yeah, and change them. Tell them to be quiet. We're going to create a new voice today, exactly. Anyway, so you mentioned that you have met. It's Christina, your partner, right? Yes, yes, I see her on my LinkedIn a lot. How did you guys meet and how did you know that it was going to be a good fit for you as co-founders?

Speaker 1: 8:56

Yeah. So we met on the DLT program, which is a really interesting program because basically they sponsor women who want to get into Web 3 and they offer, like a Spada Frankfurt blockchain centers and basically they offer women opportunity to learn about Web 3. For me, of course, I was already really involved in Web 3, but it was a great way to network actually, and that's exactly what happened. I remember the first session I had. There was this girl in the breakout room and she was doing exactly the same. What I was doing was like that's weird, because there are not that many marketers in Web 3. Actually, there are a lot of people with a finance background and so on. And then I was like, okay, let's have a chat. And after a couple of weeks she actually proposed, if we want to start, try out like a business partnership, and I remember I was actually very hesitant because this wasn't in my cards at all. I always thought I would be like a solo entrepreneur. And then I booked a session with Emily. We talked through my concerns and I actually realized there wasn't actually that many concerns. It was just something very new I didn't consider before.

Speaker 1: 10:16

And the amazing part about having a co-founder is, you know, in the beginning you need a lot of time, of course, to find ways to communicate with each other. How do you solve conflicts? You really need to talk about your values, your vision and so on, and of course, there are hard days where we disagree on topics, but on the other hand, you have a partner in crime which goes through everything with you. Yeah, you have somebody where you can walk through all the difficult days, motivate each other. It just happened this week actually, we had a week where we both were a little bit slow and demotivated and then we were like I was like Christina, let's think about December of this year what do we want to do each other? And then we did a little vision exercise and immediately our energy went up. Yeah, and immediately we were so inspired and like the work was getting like really easy and I don't know completely different energy so proud.

Speaker 2: 11:13

That's amazing. I love that. And how did you know who does what in the business Like? How did you divide up the skill set?

Speaker 1: 11:20

Yeah, I think that's something that we're still working on. Actually, we are trying it out and I think it's evolving. For example, christina is much more creative than me and I'm more like a data girl, so this was something where we naturally gravitate towards too. But then, on the other hand, we are also trying out to challenge each ourselves, not each other. We are not challenging each other ourselves and like, for example, sometimes I'm doing the designs now and she's doing the data, just to make sure that we both have a full overview of what's happening, and in that way, we can also transfer the knowledge to each other, which takes a little bit more time, but long term, it's more sustainable.

Speaker 2: 12:03

Yeah, it's wonderful and I also love that you, instead of when you first met, instead of being like, oh shit, there's another marketer in the space, there's no room for me which some people might think, and honestly the comparisonitis could come out in like, sabotage people in that situation, but you were like, hmm, there's two of us who are really good. What would we be like together? I think that's huge. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's like seeing it as a collaborative thing, like people are collaborative when, like I partner a lot with people who have very similar businesses to me.

Speaker 2: 12:40

So, for example, today after this call, I'm going downstairs to my neighbor who's also a leadership coach in France. We do exactly the same thing. We have very different training. She's more facilitator and we sit in every single week for one hour. We sit with her new baby and we do skillshares and knowledge shares, and so she's amazing at sales, so she teaches me so much. So I think I could see her as a competitor, but instead we're utilizing our skill sets and sharing. So I love that. That's what you did, and I hope anybody listening to that is inspired to do the same.

Speaker 1: 13:17

Yeah, I hope so.

Speaker 2: 13:18

So I don't know about you, but have you ever experienced that kind of competitiveness?

Speaker 1: 13:23

come up in your previous career and I'm, in general, not a person who compares herself too much to other people, like I also don't like, for example, competitive sports, like it's not something that motivates me. I'm better just measuring myself against myself. But, of course, working for this big corporation like Google, you were looking like right or left and you would see like, why is this person getting the promotion past that I need, why you know like those little things, why do they get like an award, like this kind of stuff? So I think that's very natural. So in some measure, it can help you to become better, to be motivated and so on. But, yeah, I think I don't have to trade as strongly as maybe other people. That's why I also wanted to let corporate to try it out to, yeah, how not to be in this environment where you basically just chasing the next thing which there, like it, doesn't really bring you any joy. It's just like a better paycheck or whatever.

Speaker 2: 14:30

Yeah, no, exactly it's that. And that's actually an experience that I had, where people were just so resilient to being collaborative and they saw everybody else as a threat, and that was something I had to learn how to manage and how to kind of distill Like we had to get rid of that in the team. That was not going to happen, and so for me it was really. I opened in to see, wow, people are really fiercely protecting their roles here, like, why is this? And so I've always been one who I do. I do sometimes succumb to comparisonitis, as my coach, lauren says, but in my more adult age, I would say from mid 20s, I've been able to be happy for people and support them and see how we can work together to lift each other up, and I just hope that these people who are in corporate, who are in tough leadership teams, can do that and can learn how to do that or at least have the patience to try.

Speaker 1: 15:25

Our lives would be so much easier for everybody. Everybody would be collaborative and not working against each other.

Speaker 2: 15:33

Yeah, I mean we can have healthy competition.

Speaker 1: 15:35

Yeah, I wanted to say that's actually something with three I really like in general. When I joined in the beginning, I worked for infrastructure company. The first thing they told us we don't really have competitors. We are all like frenemies, they call it. So basically there was so much space in this emerging tech market that they were saying like we're all friends, so we are helping each other to figure this shit out, and like there was no real competition. And I really had to get used to it because, coming from Google, there were a lot of competitors in that market because it was very saturated. So, yeah, that was one of the things I really enjoyed. I hope to keep that as well with my gaming company, thinking this is such a huge market.

Speaker 2: 16:19

Yeah, to your gaming company, because this is very different. So, when I met you, when we were going through things, it was the marketing right, that was your skill set and your background was product, and you always had this inkling, though. You always had so many ideas and I loved it, but we always, like, kept bringing you back to like, come on, let's just do the one thing today. But the fact that you took the decision to actually go and build something like that's not an easy thing to do, especially when you're trying to do client work and you're trying to build that business as well. So, with you and Christina, what was the moment when you were like what we need more, we need to build something else like what happened there?

Speaker 1: 16:53

Yeah. So we started this marketing consulting agency business and basically, one thing that never really said well with me and with this business idea or maybe I can say how we found it so basically how we found it is that we assessed our own strengths. You know what are the things we do really well. So what are the quick wins when you start a business? What are you really good at? And the most natural thing that came to my mind was creating this web pre marketing agency based on all these like client work I did before for Google. And then the one thing that didn't sit well with me is that with this Web 3 marketing agency, it's very manual work, no Like. Every time you have to onboard a new client, you have to get through the project. It's very operational. It's not easy to scale. Of course, you can build a big team and so on, but in the end you always have to go back, touch it and so on.

Speaker 1: 17:51

So my dream, coming from tech, was always to have something that works while I sleep. So it had to be like a tech product. And actually Christina came to me and she was like Julia. I saw this amazing thing it's the future of marketing. You won't believe it. And it was a game. It was a Kate Spade game and actually Kate Spade I don't know if it's a brand that you have on your radar, but, to be honest, for me it's not really a desirable brand. I have two bags yeah, amazing.

Speaker 2: 18:24

OK, so you will have this game. Oh yeah, when we lived in Vietnam, you can only guarantee that certain items are genuine and you have to go to one mall and the mall only stocks LV. It doesn't stock Hermes or anything like that, but it stocks Kate Spade, and I just always love Kate Spade because it's not premium, premium, it's affordable and you know that if it gets stolen, it's not the end of the world. Ah, yeah, yeah that's so cool.

Speaker 1: 18:49

Ok, so for me, who was never on the radar I wasn't in a shop before and then she showed me the game. I went into the game and basically it was like a little scavenger hunt where you could learn about the newest bag collection. You could walk around, learn about the values, the heritage, the whole sustainability efforts and so on. And after that experience I was like this is such an amazing brand, why did I never have it on my radar? So it changed my whole perception of the brand in like 10 minutes and now I would definitely walk into the next Kate Spade store. So I was like Christina, I think you're onto something here, because if you as a brand, can change your brand perception that easily with your user and why they're having fun no Like walking around doing scavenger hunt. You know there are a lot of gamifications in that thing where you can just, yeah, it's very playful and beautiful aesthetically. And then we were like this is so interesting.

Speaker 1: 19:50

But of course we dropped it because we didn't have the money to build this kind of experience. Like we didn't know where to start. And then, by accident actually, we saw that there was this BFG blockchain founders group incubator and they were looking for new participants and I think it was one day before the deadline and we both just applied on a whim with our idea and we were like, yeah, it's all around like gamification, the future of marketing. There's also data element, which you know. You can look at the data, how the user is behaving, and so on in the game and we just went for it.

Speaker 1: 20:30

They accepted us and, yeah, and this really changed the whole year, basically because joining an incubator is quite intense and I didn't know that actually signing up. So basically they give you like a framework where you can work through from your first business idea. You go through the whole market validation until you basically have the first MVP, the minimum viable product, or like the first prototype, and you're I can say it's like when you're on a highway on the left lane, like you're on high speed, like, yeah, you're racing. Like each week we got like those kind of tasks, workshops around different topics, so it was like basically there wasn't really any room to have any time off or like any downtime. So that was the very intense part.

Speaker 2: 21:21

How did you manage that? Were you able to manage that at all?

Speaker 1: 21:25

So basically, we had to first find our rhythm. I think the worst part of it all were the first couple of weeks where we couldn't find a rhythm between also us as co-founders, like working on the tasks, splitting the tasks and being really efficient in our communication. So this took some while. In the end, we really had to go back to the basics, like using really agile project management methods, using like project management organizers so who's doing what and what time frame and then really also trusting each other. There was no room for perfectionism, there was no room for double checking, micromanagement. So I think it actually brought us really closer together as a founding team, because, before you know, that was amazing.

Speaker 1: 22:14

Yeah, before I don't know. Let's say, you want to do a lead magnet and I don't know if it's the same for you, emily, because I know you do this stuff as well Like you could spend on the lead magnet like a week making the perfect booklet with all the perfect images and so on. Then we had like 24 hours. So the perfectionism is gone. So there's a good and a bad side to it.

Speaker 2: 22:34

Yeah, and lead magnets are my key area of procrastination. I have like 15. I never know which one to focus on, but, like all this, great stuff happened and what surprised you the most about you during that period of time?

Speaker 1: 22:47

So in general, I have to say, since the whole journey of being an entrepreneur so basically it's actually also since we met, I think a lot of stuff happened. I didn't even know it's possible, like, I think, as being employed for so long, I almost didn't know how it feels like to be thrown that much into the cold water, to step that much out of my comfort zone, like it's a completely different beast Then, just like getting a new promotion or like changing, switching jobs. No, you're like completely on your own, you have to trust yourself and you have to make all decisions yourself and you have to also create your own dreams. So you know, it's like a lot of things that once you have to adjust in a very short period of time. But at the same time, what I'm observing, which is something I never had before, like in my previous jobs, as an example, I always had the Sunday scaries.

Speaker 1: 23:44

So very, yeah, very how can you say popular, I think everybody's spreading the Monday morning or the same after vacation, like already, let's say, have a three week vacation in Thailand the last week of my vacation I was already in order to have to go back to work Terrible. Now, I took some time off. Yeah, and I was actually waiting for this kind of scary to come back, and the only thing I could find was excitement. I was like, oh my God, this will be so exciting. Yes, that's so cool, yeah, so that was really crazy observation.

Speaker 2: 24:23

I love hearing this. I think it's wonderful when you're able to find something that you enjoy to do and you're good at doing it, and I think that combination is what removes the Sunday scaries, right? You know it's. You've got alignment when it comes to time and time in your own personal life and time in work. And you know we talked a lot in the past about balance, but it's not a 50 50 balance with work and life, and if you can make work enjoyable and you do it well, it never has to be 50 50, right? Because it's just integrated into life nicely.

Speaker 1: 24:57

Yeah, exactly, and you know, if you need the time extra, you can always take it out. Like it's different than when you're employed, like you have to go through the 40 hours. But now it's like, if I feel it doesn't work, it doesn't work Like I can give myself space. It's not a problem. It sounds small, but it's a big shift, I would say.

Speaker 2: 25:16

Yeah, no, it is. It's huge, because a lot of that energy that you would waste being concerned and worried that, oh shit, I have to go to work, I'm tired, I really don't want to do this is like, oh, what's going to happen tomorrow and all these things that I can do. In my brain, my brain's like, yeah, exactly. I remember the week when I got married. I was like, ok, I told everybody, I'm off, no talking, I'm going to, I'm not going to text back like it's fine, I'll come back to you later. And I had a notebook on my desk in the office and I was just walking every now and then write down my idea and then walk back out again. Ten minutes later I was like, ok, wait, I need to extend on the idea. Ok, right, I'm not touching the laptop, I'm going to stay where I am.

Speaker 2: 25:56

But no, I think it's funny. I love, I love the mindset that you take on when you're an entrepreneur, is like anything is possible, like you can just try anything, and I think that's very freeing. And I think you also texted me a while ago and you said I've never what was it? I haven't done as many pivots as I've done in this incubator before. Oh my God, true yeah, like you learn how to pivot.

Speaker 1: 26:18

Yeah, yeah, that's a big thing as well. Like, basically, one of the main frameworks of this incubator was also this lean startup method, which you basically have to constantly question everything you do. And how do you question it? You have to go out and talk to people. So, really, like after three weeks, I think, we only had a website up. They were like, ok, now we have to go to your ideal client. And I was like, oh my God, like this terrible, I don't have any product. Like what are you going to tell them? Like I was like this, like how?

Speaker 1: 26:52

And then it was actually the best thing we could do. Like I activated all my old contacts and I just said you know, I'm in this incubator, we are working on this idea. Can I interview you? Can I research? And I was actually amazed how many wonderful people I have in my life that immediately jumped and they were like, yes, I give you my time, let's talk about it. And basically we were I was pitching them our idea, asking them about our needs and so on, and quickly realized what we had in mind is not really what they want. So after each interview, we were like discovering a new piece of facts and then, based on that, pivoting and pivoting and pivoting. And that's something now, even after the incubator. This week I was looking at our website and we were both like I think it's time to pivot. I was like, oh God, no, we worked, yeah, yeah, we worked on this website like two months and summer and now we're pivoting again.

Speaker 2: 27:53

But you have to let go as an entrepreneur, yeah, I think that's really refreshing to hear because and I was going to ask you actually, how do you, how do you deal with that emotionally, like that decision and that fucking hell we've just spent all this time? Other people who might not have this resilience would be like fuck it, let's just stay in this zone and not pivot. So what do you think, what traits do you think helped you to do those pivots and make those decisions?

Speaker 1: 28:22

Yeah, I think it's harder when you don't have the data. So let's say, for the website, if you don't have any insights, what is not working? I think that's a lot harder because it's just based on some kind of gut feeling. But when you really have, like this kind of insights from, let's say, like potential client and you ask them about their opinion, like it's hard to ignore, like why would you build something for yourself? Like you need to have always your client in mind, and if that's something which brings you closer to success and brings you closer to having a successful product that is used, then I think it's a lot easier because you know you have like a certain goal in mind. For the gut feeling yeah, that's a tricky one, I have to say.

Speaker 1: 29:10

Actually, after the conversation with the website, I felt the resistance in me. So I basically just took some time and put some distance between me and the desk. I think that's always helpful. I took a little walk with the dog and then came back and I was like, okay, yeah, you're right, let's do it, let's test, let's A B test. Let's not put too much time into it, let's not make the mistake again of working two months on a website and then let's see if this brings us closer to our goals. Yeah, Wonderful.

Speaker 2: 29:42

I love how you've done that and I love how you stepped away. You're just like I can't make a decision in this emotional state. I'm going to step away and I'm going to have this space and I'm going to think about it, and then I'm going to come back and code switch and here we are. I think it's great. I love it. I love hearing all this stuff On the pivoting thing you actually mentioned about how what's the point in building, what's the point in doing something when your users want something else?

Speaker 2: 30:07

Right, you need to move to what your users want. However, I don't know about you, but in my past many different roles, I have seen the opposite happen and I know that a lot of people listening to this podcast are in roles of authority senior directors, even founders and they can feel like they have to make the decision based on their investors a lot of the time Tricky, and that's really tricky. So I see that happen a lot and I think it's one of the reasons that a lot of founders come to me and they're like terrified to bring decisions to their board because they're like, fuck, I really need, we need to do this as a company, but I'm worried that they're not going to see it as like the money.

Speaker 1: 30:44

Yeah, I think the only advice I got on this like, of course, while doing the founding journey, I also need investors to make this all happen, and so I talked to a lot of people who are either venture capitalists themselves or like, yeah, I had a lot of senior positions in that area and basically they all told me, like we don't want anybody on your in your invest as an investor which don't doesn't share the same vision in the SU and who doesn't understand your product. Actually, the one advice that stucks me the most was don't take stupid money, which I love, because, like, if they don't understand, yeah, the value and they just want to make more money and more money, then you will be fucked along the way.

Speaker 2: 31:31

Yeah, it's really tricky. You will, yeah, because it goes from being fun and a vision and helping people or whatever your mission is right to. I have to keep the investors happy and that's something that really puts me off getting investment funding for our other business and I know that we had a quick conversation about that earlier and it's honestly the clients that I have who are founders and have their teams. They're like constantly figuring out like, is this the right decision for the company or am I just trying to make other people happy Totally?

Speaker 1: 32:00

And I know people who even like, yeah, buy back the shares from investors after some time, after the company's scaled and so on, and it's kind of independence is, I think, the dream of everybody, but just to get there it's a hard way.

Speaker 2: 32:13

I have got a new feature. Now we've rebranded, we're bubbling out, we have got something at the end of each podcast, and so we are going to hypothetically jump into a bubble. It's three questions and I don't need to think too much about the answers. Okay, what gets you up every day?

Speaker 1: 32:32

I think the first thing which really gets me up is the sunshine out of my window, because, you know, I live in an area which has like 300 days of sunshine a year. And then it's the morning cup of coffee. So, similar to you, I'm a coffee nerd and I love my really good phones and then beans. And then basically, I make my first cup of coffee sit down and that's when I start my day.

Speaker 2: 32:56

Love it Same Okay. So what thing do you do that keeps you sane? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 33:05

It changes a little bit depending on my stress levels, depending on my mood. I think the one thing that I already mentioned in this podcast that helps me to keep me sane is surfing. I found surfing only like two years before Before it was like a yoga girly. But surfing is the perfect combination of being in the moment, being in nature, like having this best ocean, and basically you need so much mental capacity to manage to you know, peel the waves, peel the ocean and so on that you don't have any room for anything else. And after two hour session in the water you're so exhausted that your mind is completely clear and it's like a clean slate again.

Speaker 2: 33:51

Wow, it sounds gorgeous and I guess it really grounds you as well. Being in such, like you mentioned, the vast ocean. I love it. I grew up next to the sea and so not seeing the sea every day is a bit weird, and that used to ground me a lot. Yeah, but I love that you've got that Okay. Third question Do you have one tip, one piece of advice that you might give to leaders who want to develop more confidence, like you did?

Speaker 1: 34:16

Yeah, I think what helps me a lot is to not always rely on myself. So, of course, I have a lot of people that I trust around me that I can ask for advice and so on. But don't be also shy to you know, get a support system. So I remember the time when we two were seeing each other. It helped me a lot to have, like the bio wiki check-ins and not to only advertise for you.

Speaker 1: 34:42

There is another thing, and it's like also therapy. You know, you can have somebody which you can talk to as well at the same time and I think, for example, I did both things at the same time and just to go through all those like things like transition periods, I think it's always good to have some extra support and not just rely on your friends and family. It's a big responsibility for them as well. So I think it's always good to get some extra help. Yeah, definitely yeah, and then yeah, and then just do it. I think the more you do stuff, the more confident you get. I think last year I would have never imagined to be on a podcast I think we talked about that as well or like going out on LinkedIn writing personal posts, writing like transferring my knowledge, like just, I was so shy about all of these things and now it's like a second muscle you just build by building this habit?

Speaker 2: 35:37

Yeah, and it really is, isn't it? It's like people want to have confidence now, and the only way we develop confidence is by doing, by taking action, by making mistakes, by learning what doesn't work. And many of us who are challenged with imposter syndrome or we experience imposter syndrome, we forget that it's really, a lot of the time, beginner syndrome, and I think, by reframing that a bit and that's something that I do with a thrive circle we like we don't use the word imposter syndrome. It's like we have beginner syndrome right now because you've never done this before, like it's normal, yeah, so I think it's really important to remember that. Anyway, thank you so much for joining. I think we covered a lot of things in a short time. Would you like to tell our audience where they can find you?

Speaker 1: 36:25

Yeah, I think it's the easiest to connect with me on LinkedIn, I think, yeah, julia Muschenski will have my name after that, and, yeah, I think that's the easiest way.

Speaker 2: 36:37

Yeah, fabulous, we'll put your links in the description.

Speaker 1: 36:40

Thank, you so much, julia. Yeah, it was so nice chatting to you Emily.

Speaker 2: 36:50

That's all for today on Bubbling Out. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a five star review. Your reviews and subscriptions help more people, more leaders, more entrepreneurs like you access the Bubbling Out podcast. Also, if you're on Instagram or TikTok, go and follow me. Emily Rose Delara, coach for behind the scenes, dog vids, somatic exercises and me DJing sometimes. See you next time in the bubble.